Command Decision - Test of Battle

General Discussion - Off Topic :: RE: forced back or not forced back... that is the question?

Author: Jerry Merrell
Posted: Sat Jul 31, 2010 1:55 pm (GMT 0)
Topic Replies: 3

And its worth remembering that even though a stand forced back by IDF
may be able to move in the movement phase, it cannot fire in any of the subsequent fire phases that turn. Rule 19.1.1.
Jerry

Game Photos/After Action Reports :: RE: Double blind CD game at Historicon 2010

Author: David Reasoner
Posted: Sat Jul 31, 2010 3:56 am (GMT 0)
Topic Replies: 20

quote:
Originally posted by Oberst Klarr:
I found "A Time for Trumpets" but could not find anything on "After The Battle" series books.

RZM Imports is the U.S. distributor:

http://www.rzm.com/main/search.cfm?Num=atb+bk&Name=&Publisher=&Media=books&Results=10

http://www.rzm.com/books/atb/bulge.cfm

http://www.rzm.com/books/atb/bulge2.cfm

David

Tips and Techniques :: RE: Profiles Soviet Vehicles

Author: David Reasoner
Posted: Sat Jul 31, 2010 3:43 am (GMT 0)
Topic Replies: 10

quote:
Originally posted by Gunner:
I wonder if there's something similar out there for the Germans, Americans, and Brits??

The German version is still in work:

http://www.german.o5m6.de/

And then there is this site with drawings for most nationalities:

http://ww2drawings.jexiste.fr/Files/1-Vehicles/Vehicles.htm

David

Edit - I mustn't forget this other excellent site for Soviet vehicles and equipment:

http://rkkaww2.armchairgeneral.com/galleries.htm

General Discussion - Off Topic :: RE: forced back or not forced back... that is the question?

Author: Jake Strangeway
Posted: Sat Jul 31, 2010 3:17 am (GMT 0)
Topic Replies: 3

OT,

Being forced back by fire does not affect a unit's ability to follow orders, unless it forces the stand to fall back outside 6 inches of its order cube.

See this thread:

http://testofbattle.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=2260&sid=13fe33c54e1cabbed4d6ebf98292ccdd

Specifically:

"Effects on Movement
Stands that are forced back outside of 6 inches of their order cube, they may not follow that order. If, at the end of being forced back, they are still within 6 inches of the order cube, they may follow that order."

You can also reference page 21 of the rulebook, rule:

6.5 Indirect Fire and Orders
Indirect fire is resolved in a turn after orders have
been issued, but before orders are revealed. (Rule 4,
phase 1.c.) The order is revealed and takes effect even
if the command stand which issued it is forced back or
eliminated by indirect fire; however, any stand forced
back by indirect fire and, therefore, no longer in the 6-
inch effect radius of the order marker does not follow
the order.

If, for some reason, the stand does not fall back more than 6 inches from its order cube, i.e. they are at the edge of a wood, and the force back brings them deeper into the woods, then they could, if they desired, stop 1 inch in, since it would break LOS with the enemy.

They may, in this case, be able to move back into position - but there are two important caveats:

1) They have to be given a full advance order - because once they are driven out of the template by the force back, if they attempt to move into the template again, it costs them a BMA. So if they were operating under a cautious advance, they could not actually get back into the position they were originally in.

2) Even if given a hasty advance, if they entered the template again during the movement phase, they would be allowing the template to attack them again during the Opp fire phase (see rule 17.6) - and this time without any benefit of cover, since they are Hasty Advancing.

So to sum up, if the stand which was forced back ended up within 6 inches of its order cube, then it could have obeyed that order, per the rules.

Just for future reference - as we all know, you made the call as the referee, and the referee is always right at the time the game is played.

General Discussion - Off Topic :: RE: forced back or not forced back... that is the question?

Author: DurochD
Posted: Sat Jul 31, 2010 3:12 am (GMT 0)
Topic Replies: 3

FB in the prep/arty phase usually puts a unit outside of the order chit radius, thus making it impossible to move in the ensuing move phase.

General Discussion - Off Topic :: forced back or not forced back... that is the question?

Author: olde-tanker
Subject: forced back or not forced back... that is the question?
Posted: Sat Jul 31, 2010 2:21 am (GMT 0)
Topic Replies: 3

We played a game the other night in which a platoon was forced back as a result of artillery fire. The owning player then tried to move his unit that was forced back during the movement phase. I disallowed it but when I checked the rule book under the effects of forced back it made no prohibition against it. This leads me to think that there may be different effects for forced backs that occur as a result of fires as opposed to forced back results from moral failure. Even the Pan-Galactic champion was puzzled.

I think that units that are forced back are in effect making their move for that turn... otherwise units forced out by artillery can move right back in if they move first or if the location is not contested.
_________________
Forge the Thunderbolt

History :: RE: Books and revelations about soviet artillery usage

Author: klarmstrong
Posted: Sat Jul 31, 2010 1:22 am (GMT 0)
Topic Replies: 26

Here are some more translated links on Sov artillery tactics. Concerning the "direct support" of infantry battalions, that seems to be taking place when the Soviets artillery planning identifies 'infantry support artillery groups' or divisions of the 'regimental artillery groups.' In effect it seems to be mostly mortar battalions and maybe some light artillery battalions/batteries working for the infantry battalions. Makes for some good reading. The planned, massive and as the war goes on, ever deepening artillery barrage is still predominant.

http://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?hl=en&sl=ru&tl=en&u=http://www.rkka.ru/analys/art/title.htm&rurl=translate.google.com&twu=1&usg=ALkJrhhFKApVLNf_q9LRrNARQa8XOXFTDw

http://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?hl=en&sl=ru&tl=en&u=http://militera.lib.ru/science/peredelsky_ge/index.html&rurl=translate.google.com&twu=1&usg=ALkJrhieF6l6pP19qQwr1jKbkyMuHiOCwQ
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Kelly Armstrong

Game Photos/After Action Reports :: RE: Double blind CD game at Historicon 2010

Author: Bob_Mackenzie
Posted: Fri Jul 30, 2010 4:55 pm (GMT 0)
Topic Replies: 20

Not specifically a Bulge book but Fire brigades by Kamen Nverkin is the best possible guide to the organisation and strength panzer divs at the time
_________________
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/bob_mackenzie/

Game Photos/After Action Reports :: RE: Double blind CD game at Historicon 2010

Author: RichBliss
Posted: Fri Jul 30, 2010 1:40 pm (GMT 0)
Topic Replies: 20

A Time for Trumpets is absolutely the best book on the Bulge I've ever read. And I've read most of what's available in English. For a lower level, more personal account I would also recommend "Company Commander" by the same author, Charles MacDonald.

Another good voice for a specialist read is "those Damned Engineers"
_________________
More fun to come...

Game Photos/After Action Reports :: RE: Double blind CD game at Historicon 2010

Author: Jake Strangeway
Posted: Fri Jul 30, 2010 12:03 pm (GMT 0)
Topic Replies: 20

Andrea,

Sorry - After the Battle is the publisher. The title is "Battle of the Bulge Then and Now"

Here are some of them on Amazon - they don't seem to have Market Garden volume 1 though.

http://www.amazon.com/Battle-Bulge-Then-Jean-Paul-Pallud/dp/0900913401

http://www.amazon.com/Operation-Market-garden-Then-Now-v/dp/1870067452/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1280491295&sr=1-1

http://www.amazon.com/Blitzkrieg-West-Then-After-Battle/dp/0900913681/ref=pd_sim_b_3

Game Photos/After Action Reports :: RE: Double blind CD game at Historicon 2010

Author: Oberst Klarr
Posted: Fri Jul 30, 2010 5:38 am (GMT 0)
Topic Replies: 20

thanks Jake - I found "A Time for Trumpets" but could not find anything on "After The Battle" series books. (checked Amazon) Unsure where else to try. lots of 'Bulge' books though...
_________________
Looking up from the map, I gazed into the eyes of my men. There, I could see one last glimmer of hope.

Game Photos/After Action Reports :: RE: Double blind CD game at Historicon 2010

Author: Jake Strangeway
Posted: Fri Jul 30, 2010 4:52 am (GMT 0)
Topic Replies: 20

Andrea,

Depends on what you are looking for - but a good starting point would be "A Time for Trumpets" by Charles Macdonald.

I am also a huge fan of the "After the Battle" series, so if you have $50, you may want to pick that one up too. Lots of detail, and lots of photographs - in fact, I can recommend all of the After the Battle books that I've read so far, including Market Garden, Fall of the West, and the Bulge.

Game Photos/After Action Reports :: RE: Double blind CD game at Historicon 2010

Author: Oberst Klarr
Posted: Fri Jul 30, 2010 4:40 am (GMT 0)
Topic Replies: 20

Thanks Jerry - And I'll be interested in buying any scenario book about the 'Bulge' or Western Theater of Operations. (I also want to get Jake's Operation Market Garden and anything to do with the British forces in Europe.)

I'm sort of tainted by bad games of the past where they weren't really historical, just thrown together and called such-and-such, i.e., Battle of The Bulge, etc. In these games, especially 'Bulge', it's always snowing. Of course, that was in the long past ago, and as I said - I've been stuck on the Russian Front for the past 20 years...

What is a really good book on the Battle of The Bulge?
_________________
Looking up from the map, I gazed into the eyes of my men. There, I could see one last glimmer of hope.

TO & E :: RE: British 6th Airbourne division in Normandy from CPQ 10

Author: chortle
Posted: Fri Jul 30, 2010 2:30 am (GMT 0)
Topic Replies: 2

Thanks Daniel. I didn't realise that Recon infantry had self ordering stands. That adds some interest to the paras.

Cheers

Neil
_________________
Reinforcement by Post painting service
http://www.reinforcementsbypost.com

History :: RE: German 120mm in North Africa

Author: grumble 87106
Posted: Thu Jul 29, 2010 7:07 pm (GMT 0)
Topic Replies: 3

Thanks, Peter!
_________________
Daniel